Project Cedrus Evolution & No Limitz Mast Thoughts

Which one is better? I know this is the first question on everyone’s mind. It is the same question I get about foil wings. The answer is never as simple as one thinks. There is one question I can give a definitive answer to. Is either mast better than the original mast that comes with the front wings? Simply put, yes! The real quandary is which one you should get. Here are my thoughts to help with your decision.  

No Limitz V2

Cord is 125mm

Thickness is 15.5mm

Weight-3.6lbs with adapter and Foil Drive pod or 3.1lbs without the Foil Drive Pod

I have had this mast for the past six months. I still have a V1 version that I leave in Hawaii. I have had a lot of time on the mast. It is a great mast. You need to get the Takuma version of the mast so that you can put adapters on top of it. Jim Stringfellow and FoilParts.com make adapters for this version of the mast. I still cannot understand why they choose to only make a mast for a specific brand. I guess it will save some weight or maybe it is hydrodynamically beneficial? Again, I am not sure of the why. Luckily the Takuma version, which is the old pattern of three M6 bolts is the same profile as the No Limitz mast itself, so it is like a universal adapter version. This allows for adapters for a lot of brands. I personally have Unifoil, Cloud9, Axis, Code, and F-One. All the adapters work well. They fit snugly and have very little play in them. I have had to adjust some of them to fit better by either sanding or applying some tape to areas. The adapters are third party, so quality is not dictated by No Limitz. The baseplate is permanently bonded to the mast.

Speed

This is a very fast mast. I could immediately feel the difference when I went from the old Cedrus to this mast. The thickness of 15.5mm on V2 makes quite a difference compared to the Old Cedrus mast. The speed difference between the V1 and V2 is subtle. They say it is faster, but I cannot tell the difference.

Stiffness

Yes, is the answer. This mast is very stiff. It has very little flex in both Yaw and Roll. I have ridden the V1 and then the V2 on the same day with the same wing and the V2 has less flex. The flex difference between the V1 and V2 is not much but it is there, and I would say it is splitting hairs. Pumping is excellent with you getting a direct feel of the wing under your feet. The flex I feel is mostly due to the connection between the adapter and the fuselage. Some fit better than others and I can feel that.

Weight

This is the lightest mast on the market while maintaining excellent stiffness. I have always been a weight nerd in all my sports. Lighter seems to be better. Be it the board, wing or mast those grams do make a difference. I do not think you can get a better weight to stiffness ratio than the No Limitz. It is 3.6 lbs with my Foil Drive Pod and a Cloud9 adapter on it and 3.1lbs without the Foil Drive Pod.

Project Cedrus Evolution Surf

Longer Cord 120mm

Shorter Cord  110mm

Thickness variable 16-19mm

Weight- 4.3lbs with Adapter and Foil Drive pod or 3.8lbs without the Foil Drive Pod

I had the original Project Cedrus mast, and I loved it. Being able to go from brand to brand was much less expensive due to the mast. Yes, it was thick at 19mm wide but the performance compromise was worth the other benefits. I am a person that likes to try brands and different wings so it is important that I can use one mast for everything. Honestly, I made the switch to No Limitz as soon as the adapters were available because the performance was much better, and I could have my adaptability as well. I was very happy with my No Limitz set-up.

 I have only had my new Evolution mast for a few weeks, but honestly the first session on it I could feel the massive upgrade from the prior version. The design concepts that went into this mast are amazing. The build quality is top notch. This mast has variable thickness and chord! Kyle really thought this through, and his engineering background is obvious in the Evolution’s design.

Speed

Yes, is the answer again. This mast is just as fast as the No Limitz and maybe even faster. I am not talking high end speed here but speed-feel. Let me digress for a second. I think that people tend to focus on top-end speed, but really you want a mast that helps you in your normal speed range. Prone foiling speed is generally in the 10 to 20 mile per hour range. I know this because of the Garmin watch I wear. I do not need a foil that goes 30 MPH, just one that has less drag in my speed range. Kyle seems to understand this and engineered this into the design. It has a longer chord at the base and then shortens for the middle of the mast and then goes Long again at the fuselage The variable chord and thickness of the Evolution gives the mast this better speed-feel in that 10-20mph range. I tend to let my foil get deeper in the water and therefore the mast will have more drag. I can feel this with the No Limitz. The Evolution minimizes this by having a shorter cord where it counts. This makes perfect sense. High aspect wings are faster through the water than lower aspect wings. Thinner wings are faster through the water. Speed is increased by these variables. Thus, the mast feels like it is faster and easier to pump since most of the mast in the water is thinner and has a shorter chord.

Stiffness

Wow! This is the stiffest mast I have ever ridden. Kyle has managed to make this mast feel like it is directly connected to the foil wing. The mast is incredibly stiff in both Yaw and Roll. I am not the most radical foiler, but when I pushed it to the limit, I still could not feel any flex. This is likely due to the variable thickness in the mast.  I also think that the increased stiffness is a result of the adapters. I only have the Unifoil and Cloud9 adapters right now. I have used both and they fit perfectly. Absolutely no play or flex. My first ride on this mast I thought I was on a new wing. The control was increased and no slop at all in the turns. Using M8 bolts and adding pins to the adapter increases the weight, but the stiffness and precision of the fit make up for that. Also, it comes with titanium bolts which saves weight.

Weight

This is not for the weight conscious person. It is definitely heavier than the No Limitz. The question is whether or not the weight difference is an issue. I am a weight nerd and I think it is worth it. The increased stiffness and speed-feel more than make up for the weight penalty for me. Some other OEM masts are very stiff but they weigh a lot more.

Summary

Let me start off by saying that whichever mast you get you will not go wrong. I am fortunate enough to have both. I do not see selling either one, but only time will tell if I choose one over the other. I will switch between the two for now.  

They both have incredible build quality.

Both are stiffer than 95% of the OEM masts on the market.

Both are very fast.

Finally, both have a lot of different brand adapters.  

The Winner is…

If I could have only one of these masts, I would pick the Project Cedrus Evolution Surf. Why? 

My reasoning is:

  • Incredible build quality.
  • Unrivaled stiffness.
  • Adapter connections are precise.
  • The variable chord and thickness allow for better Speed-feel and pump in the normal prone speed range.

If you have any questions or comments please send me an email at; Surfdocsteve@foilsurfing.net

If you want to purchase a mast please contact Josh at The Foil Shop in Seal Beach.